bush, barack obama. these justices serve -- they don't serve for four year terms. they serve decade after decade and that's why the issue is so important. >> you gave a fascinating portrait of how similar yet different allies of president obama and john roberts swore him in and had to do the oath again. both of them had ties to chicago. both of them harvard, both of them harvard law review. i mean, it was amazing how they were like flip sides of the same coin. >> it is. they do a fascinating parallels. but the paradox of the difference is that john roberts when it comes to the constitution is the candidate of change. he's the one who wants to change the law on abortion, on civil rights, on the death penalty, on all of these areas whereas obama is much more of a cautious conservative when it comes to the course. he's the one saying, let's leave things the way they are. the law is okay the way it is. roberts is part of the generation of conservatives. ronald reagan brought them to washington who said, we have to change the law. >> i've been trying to tell everybody,